Game Development Community

Torque 3D Development - Pricing and Licensing ANNOUNCED!

by Brett Seyler · 03/21/2009 (2:53 am) · 494 comments

www.ggbetas.com/brett/header_blog_t3d_sidebar.png

www.ggbetas.com/brett/coffee-rounded-bordered.pngHey everyone! I know some of you saw the Gamasutra story that revealed some previously unreleased details about Torque 3D. I'm going to to try to clarify the whole picture, and fill in any gaps with this post here.

Because it's GDC week, I'm already down here in SF doing some PR, talking about iTorque, and talking to some local studios about Torque and InstantAction. Needless to say, definitely keeping busy, so I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible and focus on the stuff I know you most want answered. We've got a big week ahead of us :) I'm guessing we'll get a lot more questions answered in the comments, so feel free to throw out anything I don't cover here.

When I first started blogging on our dev progress in December, I really didn't think we'd get as far as we have, as fast as we have. Torque 3D is really a huge step up from TGEA, particularly with respect to the toolset, usability, and content pipeline. I think users will react most to the effort we've put into the tools, and we'll be showing much more of that in the next few weeks. Of course, we've done some major subsystem updates as well (Web publishing, Terrain, Post processing, Particles, etc).








Licensing


I posted twice on pricing & licensing (one of which is still probably the most commented on post in GG history) and we definitely listened. These were the main takeaways from the roughly 400 comments (and numerous emails) I got since.
Quote:1. Support, especially ticketed support is in high demand. If GG can find a way to provide this, there are Torque developers willing to pay for it.

2. A low entry point to Torque is important, even if it means some restrictions in the EULA or deprecating some features.

3. Greater polish, usability, stability and overall quality are paramount attributes for a high-end Torque product.

4. A focus on tools, and particularly usability in the World Editor, is the most important area to address in Torque 3D.

So we took all that, and really put your opinions into action, both from a development standpoint, and with respect to pricing & licensing. Here is what we decided on:

1. Two versions available on the website, Basic and Professional, each with an Indie EULA.

2. Basic and Pro have a feature delta, with the Pro package being targeted at existing TGEA owners, or pro / prosumer developers and studios who might need to create custom code modifications for their game. The Basic package is targeted at new users, who want to learn the tools, and see what the engine is capable of. You will be able to us Basic to create a game, even though we expect it to ship as a binary only. When working on a larger team, artists and designers often don't need access to the source code, and in these cases, the Basic package will probably be a better fit, given that team members can share compiled binaries with one another.

3. For those looking for a custom EULA, perhaps for an entire studio or for a single project that doesn't qualify for our "Indie" license, we'll respond to inquiries to licensing@garagegames.com. I should note that we probably won't touch any requests to this address that aren't from developers serious about a more expansive license and with the means and ability to pay for it. For example, our typical Studio licenses start @ $6k for a small team, and go up from there.


Features


The Professional version of Torque 3D will include everything we've talked about thus far, and a lot of what still hasn't been revealed. For example, we're planning to include updates to Physics, new Terrain, a Decal Editor, a Datablock Editor, River / Road / Path tools, and a Material editor in the final release.

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The Basic version will not include Web Publishing, Advanced Lighting, or the River & Road Tools, but everything else is in there. It will also be binary only. Again, this version is probably not a good fit for most of you who currently own TGEA. We're offering the big discount during the pre-order period only on Pro, and TGEA owners will not be able to apply any of their TGEA license fee to Torque 3D Basic. Only to Professional.

We've been talking about Genre Kits and Add-ons a bit as well. There's some really good stuff coming there, but we don't have any pricing to announce with that yet. There's the Luma Racing Kit (based on their game "Rev" published on InstantAction, and including some of those production assets). There's a much updated FPS Starter Kit with work from Max Gaming and Apparatus. There's Sickhead's Forest Kit (not sure if that name is final or not) which is *really* cool. It will let you paint down foliage, or just random objects to the terrain or into a scene. I've seen this in action. It's going to impress the hell out of people. There's also Gerhard's expansion (unnamed at present) which will probably include a lot of custom assets and functionality on top of what you've already seen.

The takeaway w/ Genre Kits and most of these Add-ons is that they will likely be Pro-only.


Pricing


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So, let's break this down just a bit more clearly.

What will Torque 3D cost me?

If you own TGEA Indie (and I think this is most of you now), your cost to upgrade to Torque 3D Professional is $1000 - $200 (pre-order discount) - $295 (TGEA Indie contribution = $505

If you own TGEA Commercial, you can apply your license to Torque 3D Professional the same way an Indie owner can with a final cost of $505. If you'd like something similar to a Commercial TGEA license for Torque 3D, you'll need to contact us directly.

If you own any other Torque products, you can still purchase TGEA and get the same discount described above for a limited time. The pre-order discount will expire when we release release the final Torque 3D build (expecting this to be in May at the moment). The first beta will be delivered to Torque 3D owners in April.

There is no pre-order available for Torque 3D Basic, and there is no discount on Basic for existing TGEA owners.

Why Pre-order?

www.rustycode.com/matt/bp.jpg Access to the Torque 3D Closed Beta -- First delivery in April
www.rustycode.com/matt/bp.jpg An exclusive Torque 3D T-Shirt
www.rustycode.com/matt/bp.jpg Torque 3D private forum access on GarageGames.com
www.rustycode.com/matt/bp.jpg Up to $495 off the full version price


As I mentioned before, I'm going to keep posting blogs all the way up to our release, and probably for a while thereafter. We've still got a lot to show.

More sidebars and development blogs to come. This is post #15.


Torque 3D development blogs:




About the author

Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.

#381
03/27/2009 (8:55 pm)


I would really like someone to discuss how backward compatible this new release will be to TGE. What new language features, library additions/depracations, will my current code base mostly work with the new release or should I should I start planning on rewriting the code to work with the new release etc.

Any comments on this would be appreciated.
#382
03/27/2009 (9:11 pm)
@James: backwards compatibility with TGE? I'd say that Torque 3D will be more backwards compatible with TGEa than it would be for TGE (a lot got changed along the way). It would be easier to make your changes forward to TGEa and then to Torque 3D, than to do it all in big step. It's been stated several times that ease of porting has been kept in mind during the development cycle (being able to re-use our current script/data was mentioned) ...but that "ease of porting" has been with TGEa in mind, will be my guess. Without being familiar with your codebase and your changes no one can really say how easy or complicated the porting process will be.
#383
03/27/2009 (9:14 pm)
If you have been thru the TGEA debacle then you should know better then to pre-order an engine from gg.
#384
03/27/2009 (10:21 pm)
Hello,
Below are a few titles that describe how to develop with Torque. Qualitatively how relevant will these titles be when the Torque3D comes out? In other words, if the information in these books will still be completely relevant to the next release I'll be thrilled.

The Complete Guide to Torque X by John Kanalakis (Paperback - Sep 1, 2008) - Illustrated
3D Game Programming All in One, Second Edition by Kenneth C Finney The Ultimate Guide to Video Game Writing and Design by Flint Dille and John Zuur Platten (Paperback - Jan 8, 2008)
Creating Game Art for 3D Engines (Game Development) by Brad Strong Advanced 3D Game Programming All in One by Kenneth C Finney (Paperback -


#385
03/27/2009 (11:19 pm)
On one of the licensing terms for the Professional version--
Allows for Non-game Projects X (instead of a check)

Wow!!! That seems a little steep. The 'Train Construction Kit' is not a game so the company who made that game will have to fork out for the Enterprise level version of the software -- correct?
#386
03/27/2009 (11:22 pm)
@James: Not necessarily, no.
#387
03/27/2009 (11:52 pm)
Will someone please respond to my questions at the top of page 19, thanks.
#388
03/28/2009 (12:24 am)
@Brett,
I'd like to use Torque3D to enhance the experience at my website. What is considered a game and not a game with Torque3D? I'm really hoping to use Torque3D and am a lone developer at this time -- but I don't necessarily want a game. I hope the licensing changes in favor of enhancing the web site experience.
#389
03/28/2009 (1:13 am)
Does Torque 3D mean I can make a browser based game like the instantaction.com?

How difficult it is to convert TGE/TGEA games to Torque 3D browser version?

Thanks.
#390
03/28/2009 (2:09 am)
well they already said its basically going to be hardly any clicks just to compress the files for putting it on the web as they made a automatic program for that. as for putting it in your browser thats the little harder part but they said they will have documentation for how to do that.

i think web will be the easiest way of doing things at lest the way it sounds its going to be very simple.
#391
03/28/2009 (2:24 am)
To all who read:

IMO it would be financially stupid not to offer the kits to the basic users. I mean lets look at this here. How many people are going to actually shell out the cash GG wants, let alone can afford to shell out the cash for the pro version? Not a lot. Now some of you may say well 1k aint much. for some that is a whole months salary. So hopefully someone will see this and say you know what ? he is right, that would be financially stupid of us not to offer that.

Now you sya that third parties make the kits, but 9 out of 10 times they are sold through GG who in turn gets a take of the action. So yes it does benefit GG too
#392
03/28/2009 (4:46 am)
@ysun

Take a look at this for more info on web publishing in Torque 3D
#393
03/28/2009 (10:05 am)
@ Brandon
"the cloth in T3D i think will blow everyone's minds out of there head. :P "

I'm certain I read somewhere that the cloth functionality will not be integral part of stock T3D...
#394
03/28/2009 (1:14 pm)
Some of you think the 1k is a little steep. If so then pre-order and you get 20% of on professional. If that is still not cheep enough then wait a few years till they come out with a new engine and then you can buy Torque 3D then.
Or you can save up for Torque 3D by not buying as many entertainment items.
If, after that you still think Torque 3D is too much then don't get it at all, but for the graphics and the service it is the best offer for a game engine considering what you get.
#395
03/28/2009 (1:16 pm)
Will someone please reply to my previos posts on the top of page 19 thanks,
J
#396
03/28/2009 (1:17 pm)
Another ?, what is the best way to learn C++ code?
#397
03/28/2009 (1:21 pm)
Quote:
Another ?, what is the best way to learn C++ code?

I don't think that's closely related to this thread, please use the forums instead.
#398
03/28/2009 (1:47 pm)
The price for this release is quite a step up than previous releases (which is fine). That said, are does Torque 3D contain tools such as a GUI particle editor or is that additional again?
#399
03/28/2009 (3:05 pm)
@ J
I dont think the price is steep at all, but as stated do you want 10% of the pie or 15% of the pie. I don't think some of you really no the financial gain GG could get from allowing the Genre kits to be integrated into the basic version. Thats my gripe. Why would I slap down 1k or 800 even or lets go this rout 650 bucks if I purchase TGEA. To develop off a template, hell if I was that good, i wouldnt need torque, I would code my own crap, but I am not. So I would buy the basic kit plus a few Genre kits. Now lets look at this:

You make fps genre kit you sale it for 50 bucks. Lets say GG gets 10% of that. Thats 5 bucks GG just made for NO WORK AT ALL except processing the payment for the third party. So if you make it available for the basic kit too guess what ? You can almost triple that 5 bucks.
#400
03/28/2009 (3:28 pm)
No, they would loose 750 for each pack sold because people would buy the 250 instead of the thousand because of the content packs, plus you get amazing bridge, river and road tools with the 1k tool.