Game Development Community

Targeting Older Systems

by Rubes · 02/17/2009 (8:31 pm) · 8 comments

Way back when, when the Vespers project was first starting out, I had to decide which game engine to use. Initially, the choice was between the Torque Game Engine and the Unity engine. I eventually chose TGE for a few reasons -- at the time, the engine had been around longer than Unity, the community was larger, and it was less expensive and more straightforward to develop cross-platform games (specifically, Mac and PC).

Once that decision was made, then there was the choice of which Torque engine to use: the basic TGE engine, or the higher-end TGEA (TGE-Advanced) engine, which back then was called TSE (for "Torque Shader Engine"). TGEA offered a number of more advanced features, the most obvious of which was higher-quality graphic rendering. That came at a price, though; at the time, the engine would only run on Windows machines, and it required machines with graphics cards that could handle the bigger load. Also, although TGEA does now support OpenGL and Macs, back then it was not so clear if that would ever actually come to pass. Since I was more interested in developing simultaneously for Windows and Macs, TGEA didn't seem like the best option at the time. TGE had been around longer and was more stable, even though its graphics performance was not at the same level as TGEA.

For me, though, stunning shaders and slick water rendering were trumped by the desire to create a game that would run on a wide range of machines, especially machines that are older or without the top of the line video card. The problem there is that, given the length of time for development, it's hard to put (or perhaps keep) a finger on what constitutes an appropriately "old" machine. When I started development of Vespers, my main desktop dev machine was still fairly new and probably middle of the line. Now, however, the machine is going on six years old. That doesn't seem very old, and it still runs most of my applications nicely enough, but in computer years that's almost geriatric and at this point it's naturally much slower than the machines from the past couple of years.

This is not a big deal for day-to-day activities, but as we add more and more content to the game, we're seeing some serious performance issues on my now old machine, despite a few rounds of optimization. But that makes me start to question what I should be targeting for a minimum system requirement. I had always thought that my machine would still be somewhere in the middle by the time we finished development, but now I'm beginning to feel like it's toward the bottom end.

(In case the four of you reading this are interested, my dev machine is a Mac G5 Dual 2 GHz model, circa 2003, with an ATI Radeon x800 video card, but it also runs well enough on the same setup with an ATI Radeon 9600 card. My wife still uses a Mac G4 laptop, so there are certainly G4 computers still perfectly usable. But Macs have evolved over the years to faster G5 chips and now a couple of rounds of Intel chips, as well as more modern video cards.)

I've generally been going on the assumption that if the game runs well enough on my dev machine, by the time it's released that should be a fairly reasonable minimum system requirement. But it will be progressively more difficult to ensure it runs well enough on machines that are even just a little bit older. Still, my goal is to try and include as many older machines as possible. The more the merrier -- but within a still to-be-determined limit.

So that leads me to wonder: how long do you all typically own a computer before replacing it with a new machine? Adding memory or upgrading the video card extends the life of a computer, of course, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm interested to know how long people generally keep their rigs before replacing them with a new box. Some people of course keep their old rigs around for different tasks, but I'm interested in knowing how old some of the systems are out there that people still use for gaming (particularly 3D games, like Vespers), and what kind of system people would be interested in seeing this game run on -- Mac or PC/Windows. If you would, let me know in the comments below.


#1
02/17/2009 (9:57 pm)
Well for me, i get into a new machine about once per year. I soley use Laptops now plus i own a computer store so it is good to keep my main machine upto date as possible because it doubles as my show peice to sell them.

From a point of view of my customers, they like to keep their machines for anywhere from 3 - 5 years before the industry says you need to upgrade (or that impression at any rate.)
#2
02/17/2009 (11:10 pm)
I have alwas been worried about all those small PCs which are appearing everywhere. Those can be considered as old PCs with a lot of memory. Players may want to play on those your game too.
Anyway I think 5 years is more than adequate time.
#3
02/17/2009 (11:52 pm)
I used to upgrade my machines every 3 years, but for the past few years, processors (etc) just haven't gotten much faster. By "much faster" I mean they are no longer doubling in speed every 1.5 years. I let my last box live for 4 years. This one will probably live for 5 years (I'm nearing the end of year 2), or even more. Who knows? There no longer seems to be much reason to upgrade them anymore.
#4
02/18/2009 (12:25 am)
I upgrade my systems all 18 to 24 months ...
The equip of my current system speaks for itself (Core i7 920, GTX280 with an 8800 GTS 640MB SuperClocked as PhysX / CUDA CoProcessor, 6GB RAM with the plan to upgrade this to at least 12GB if not even 24GB in the next 12 months - previous sys was a Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3Ghz, 8800GTS 640MB SuperClocked, 8GB RAM)


Thought this upgrade was mainly a combination of happenings: It all started out when I upgraded to a new larger screen with 1920x1200 resolution.
My old GPU wasn't able to feed it well enough anymore
-> new GPU and new PSU.
Stupid thing was that the GPU nearly didn't fit into the case
-> new case

and then the mainboard started to play tricks with breaking down on the SATA performance end (frustrating if you have 4x 500GB in RAID 5 and you drop to 60mb/s and less throughput) and the network died.
At that point I had the choice of forking out $100-$200 for a new mainboard or just do the upgrade earlier than planned and save the cash for the mainboard. Well thats what I did then in the end.
With the Core i7 I expect to have a platform that won't need any higher end upgrade in the next 24++ months.
The only things that potentially might need a helping hand are RAM, expand to 6 HDs and potentially a second GTX280 once they drop considerably in price to do a SLI but I guess by that time, DX11 cards will be around, stronger than GTX280 SLI and cheaper so I'll likely get a DX11 card around Q4 2010 to mid 2011, depending on how they work out performance wise.


It should be mentioned thought that this is my dev system and that it has brought in its cost a few times in the time it was active (a bit more than 1 month)
#5
02/18/2009 (3:08 am)
well i upgraded my computer in 2008 2 times the first one was a laptop but i was not happy with its specs. i then decided to get better computer and yet it was just in time as that laptop died on me right when i got the desktop.

my specs now
GeForce 8800GTS 640MB
Intel Core 2 Quad CPU Q6600 @2.4GHz
4GB ram DDR2
1TB Drive

i have xp32 bit installed i have vista but to many problems so i changed back to xp. i have 2 other ram sticks as vista was 64 bit and i only have 32 bit xp but when the new windows comes out i think i will buy that and it will be 64 bit so i can have my 8gb ram back.

now that i have upgraded i think i might upgrade maybe every 1-2 years i will keep the same 1TB drive though as if i ever need more then that i can always buy more 1TB drives. :P I also goign to get another screen right now i using a bad 17 inch screen that i payed hardly anything for i going to be getting the best 22 inch screen i can find. no one should go over 22 inch not for games at lest as you kill your system with higher res. i will still use the 17 inch one as i have always wanted to run 2 screens at once and i think its real help full at getting things done faster. in the next system i will get 2 graphics cards and then maybe buy 2 other screens so i can have 4 going all at once.

i say that if you play games you should not have a computer older then 5 years as then your outdated on basically every new game that comes out. i got some other school stuff in this computer but those are just for me. :P i really like my lightscribe cd drive its the best. :P
#6
02/18/2009 (7:08 am)
Why not target older systems AND new Netbooks?

"By late 2008, netbooks had begun to take market share away from laptops and overtook iPhone sales by 900,000 units in Q3. It is estimated that almost thirty times more netbooks were sold in 2008 than in 2007 and for 2009 sales are expected to grow a further 189% to 21.5 million. Sales are projected to increase up to 50 million by the year 2012. This trend is compatible with the rise of web-based applications as well as mobile networking"

If you believe Wikipedia numbers, sounds like a pretty good market for indies to me... and heck, for around $300... I want one :)
#7
02/18/2009 (2:58 pm)
There are several "tiers", and you need to decide which ones are going to be supported beforehand since this will affect the entire design of your game:

- Netbooks and very old laptops: 1GHz celeron-class processors, 512~1GB DDR2 RAM, Intel 910~950 GPU with 32~64MBs VRAM.


- Single-core PCs: usually using older architecture single-core CPUs like P4 and Athlon XP/64, and their low-budget derivatives. Video cards are mostly AGP and likely to be FX5200-class, some even lower at GF4MX class.

- Dual-core low-end IGP PCs and laptop: might have a Core2Duo CPU, but has no dedicated GPU. At worst case you're dealing with integrated Intels (X3000), which can run shaders if you keep things very simple and limited to SM 2.0. Multiple passes and render-to-texture effects should be avoided.

- Dual-core not-so-crappy IGP PC/laptop: Same as previous, but might be equipped with stuff like GF 7300, ATI HD2400, etc. Those cards can provide some eye candy, as long as you're not going overblown and optimize a lot.
#8
02/20/2009 (3:07 am)
Rubes,

I generally upgrade every 2-3 years. Part of this is driven by my need to have a platform which is as fast as possible to make my job easier, but it is also driven by my consumer side. i.e. I want to play the latest games.

As a matter of fact, I'm currently upgrading my systems now. :)


OS X Dev Machine
(OLD) Mac Mini (Core Duo) ----> (NEW) 17" MacBookPro (Core2Duo)

Windows Dev Machine:
(OLD) DELL XPS (PentiumD 950) ----> (NEW) Bootcamp MBP

Gaming Machine:
(OLD) DELL XPS (PentiumD 950) ----> (NEW) Home-built Core i7

:) You probably can tell I'm excited, but I've been waiting a long time to collapse my dev work onto a suitably powerful MBP. I think the new generation meets the bill.