TSE on Revolution
by Greg Szemiot · 02/12/2006 (10:54 pm) · 8 comments
So we recently announced we'd like to put our game Orb onto Nintendo Revolution, and we'd like to do it with TSE (seeing as we are already building the prototype in TSE on PC)... The problems is GG seems to be in Microsofts camp at the moment, as TSE PC work and updates seems to have dried up, ATLAS 2.0 is still a long way off, OpenGL support is even longer off.
We have no illusions that Revolution would not be the easiest platform to put the game on, but when you have to cut ideas from the PC version because they just don't work, and dual analog is confusing to implement and makes the game more complicated... well, I'd rather make a solid game on a platform I know can handle it that one that would require a incomplete game.
The problems come in the form of compatability... Since Revolution uses the same (but obviously upgraded) APIs as the Gamecube, we can use that as a base. PowerPC Architecture for the CUP, GX for the graphics API. GX is similar to OpenGL in some respects. It uses tev (short for texture enviroment) instead of glsl for shaders and lighting, but has some similarities.
If Garage Games wants to give indies as many platforms as possible the freedome to create games, I seriously think they should be talking to Nintendo about Revolution... how can they turn down our chances to use technology such as the free style controller and other unique aspects of the revolution?
We have no illusions that Revolution would not be the easiest platform to put the game on, but when you have to cut ideas from the PC version because they just don't work, and dual analog is confusing to implement and makes the game more complicated... well, I'd rather make a solid game on a platform I know can handle it that one that would require a incomplete game.
The problems come in the form of compatability... Since Revolution uses the same (but obviously upgraded) APIs as the Gamecube, we can use that as a base. PowerPC Architecture for the CUP, GX for the graphics API. GX is similar to OpenGL in some respects. It uses tev (short for texture enviroment) instead of glsl for shaders and lighting, but has some similarities.
If Garage Games wants to give indies as many platforms as possible the freedome to create games, I seriously think they should be talking to Nintendo about Revolution... how can they turn down our chances to use technology such as the free style controller and other unique aspects of the revolution?
About the author
#2
Just my 2
02/12/2006 (11:50 pm)
My personal opinion is that other things need mre attention than platform support. (e.g. TDN/documentation, Constructor, TSE out of EA, etc.). This doesn't mean is dislike the rate at which things are being done by GG, it's just that a solid art pipeline, and solid documentation are still being worked on. Both of these things, I think, will be adressed quite a bit by Constructor and the constant dedication of the community towards TDN.Just my 2
#3
And I don't know if they are in anyone's "camp". They already said if you give them latest console dev kit they will look at it. Like PS3.. got a dev kit for them (big old pc lol)??
02/13/2006 (3:26 am)
No you didn't... (humor about all the recent TSE rants and GG posts in reply to said subject..)Quote:TSE work and updates seems to have dried upHave you been reading the plans?
And I don't know if they are in anyone's "camp". They already said if you give them latest console dev kit they will look at it. Like PS3.. got a dev kit for them (big old pc lol)??
#4
Guys, I'm not sure why you think GarageGames doesn't want to work with the Revolution. Or that they're Microsoft only. GarageGames isn't the gatekeeper here -- it's Nintendo. The same can be said of Sony.
The number 1 reason that GarageGames has a working version of TSE for the XBox and XBox360 is because Microsoft has been willing to work with them. Microsoft is also currently the only console manufacturer that has an online distribution medium to allow for an indie sales channel.
For some reading, check out Alex Swanson's comment at the bottom of Pat's .plan here. I'd also recommend reading Pat's comments in this thread.
As someone who is on the outside looking in, it appears that GarageGames wants us all to win...but they can only do so much on technology that other companies own and are not willing to share.
Greg:
Have you tried contacting Nintendo to see what it will take for you to publish a game on their system as an indie? If you're able to open doors with your game, I'd bet that GarageGames would be willing to help out on the game engine side.
- LightWave Dave
02/13/2006 (3:36 am)
Greetings!Guys, I'm not sure why you think GarageGames doesn't want to work with the Revolution. Or that they're Microsoft only. GarageGames isn't the gatekeeper here -- it's Nintendo. The same can be said of Sony.
The number 1 reason that GarageGames has a working version of TSE for the XBox and XBox360 is because Microsoft has been willing to work with them. Microsoft is also currently the only console manufacturer that has an online distribution medium to allow for an indie sales channel.
For some reading, check out Alex Swanson's comment at the bottom of Pat's .plan here. I'd also recommend reading Pat's comments in this thread.
As someone who is on the outside looking in, it appears that GarageGames wants us all to win...but they can only do so much on technology that other companies own and are not willing to share.
Greg:
Have you tried contacting Nintendo to see what it will take for you to publish a game on their system as an indie? If you're able to open doors with your game, I'd bet that GarageGames would be willing to help out on the game engine side.
- LightWave Dave
#5
If we make the internal (and external) progress that we are looking for, maybe we can consider Revoution and other platforms. I agree with Lightwave Dave, if Greg can open doors to Nintendo, we'll be happy to talk to them. But, if you are waiting on us to get this work done, it will have to be on our schedule.
-Jeff Tunnell, GG
02/13/2006 (3:57 am)
I think the Revolution controlller could be one of the biggest "revolutions" in the gaming world in a long time, assuming it works. I am excited by it. However, we have a lot on our plate right now, and Revolution support is not there. Frogger has all of our highest priorities listed. Let's see what this list looks like right after GDC.If we make the internal (and external) progress that we are looking for, maybe we can consider Revoution and other platforms. I agree with Lightwave Dave, if Greg can open doors to Nintendo, we'll be happy to talk to them. But, if you are waiting on us to get this work done, it will have to be on our schedule.
-Jeff Tunnell, GG
#6
I apologize about the Microsoft's camp remark... It's been very stressfull for us at CSE right now and it's kinda wearing on me now.
02/13/2006 (7:13 am)
Fair enough... I'll see what I can do (I do have alot of fans on my side right now ;) Grassroots movement here we come)I apologize about the Microsoft's camp remark... It's been very stressfull for us at CSE right now and it's kinda wearing on me now.
#7
02/13/2006 (5:17 pm)
That controller is going to cause carpal issues. It's more like a TV remote. You dont' want your hand extended like that for long periods of repetition because it will pull at the carpal.
#8
02/13/2006 (6:36 pm)
I'm sure they've worked on that... I mean, Gamecube was the most egronomic controller of the group last time, it was even a selling point at one time.
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The Revolution, on the other hand, is still shrouded in mystery. It wasn't until fairly recently that the general public even knew about the controller design. I haven't heard of any strong message from Nintendo saying "come on in indies," even though it appears they are crafting something along those lines. Nintendo has historically made platforms for their own games and brought other publishers along for the ride only when they cooperated. But GG is itself trying to make the market on its own terms(since it's not a traditional publisher), so you end up with some subtle conflicts-of-interest.
All of these things push the Revolution out of the picture - for the moment. Putting TSE on the Rev is a big move for technical reasons, but it's also a good way to diversify. It could easily be GG's next target if they aren't planning some other big project.