One man team - feasible?
by Jeffrey Bakker · in General Discussion · 10/01/2005 (7:50 pm) · 42 replies
I'm planning to make a modern RPG, and doing it pretty much by myself. Is it feasible to develop a TGE game with a one man development team? How many of you in the community (excluding GG employees) have completed a TGE title, how many people worked on it, and how long did it take?
Although this is my first actual game, game development is nothing new to me. I've been programming under various languages in Linux and Windows for the past 5 years, with C++ as my specialty. I've made plenty of modifications/addons to UT2003/2004 in the past 2 years including Unrealscripting, level design, texture art, and 3D modelling. I've also made music on computers for a few years. I'm no "master" at either of these skills, but I get by and do a pretty decent job.
I am still poking around, trying to learn the Torque engine, so the bulk of my game is only in concept at the moment (other than a few modelled objects and a character). My target date is hopefully around Q4 2006. Is this realistic, or is this a pipe dream?
Thanks.
Although this is my first actual game, game development is nothing new to me. I've been programming under various languages in Linux and Windows for the past 5 years, with C++ as my specialty. I've made plenty of modifications/addons to UT2003/2004 in the past 2 years including Unrealscripting, level design, texture art, and 3D modelling. I've also made music on computers for a few years. I'm no "master" at either of these skills, but I get by and do a pretty decent job.
I am still poking around, trying to learn the Torque engine, so the bulk of my game is only in concept at the moment (other than a few modelled objects and a character). My target date is hopefully around Q4 2006. Is this realistic, or is this a pipe dream?
Thanks.
#2
10/01/2005 (8:08 pm)
I am a one man team currently which is hard because I can't model people very well. And my C++ skills are... lacking. If you want to try to do it make sure the game you're shooting for can be done. EX: if you can't model castles don't make a midevil game. I am making a game that requires no people models just spheres and buildings both of which I can do.
#3
10/01/2005 (8:27 pm)
I'd say it's definitely possible, but it is going to take a lot more time than you plan for. I'm also a one-man team, and I shipped a game a long time ago that was just 2D. I have yet to ship one with TGE, since it takes so much longer to create 3D assets.
#4
If i get overwhelmed, or just plain lazy, I may purchase a content pack to cut down on content development time.
Good luck, Treb, Jason, and to all the other one man teams out there.
10/01/2005 (8:27 pm)
I am no godsend, but I have been doing many different forms of art since I was a child. 2D and 3D graphics is what got me into computers in the first place. My weak point would be texturing, but I'm always willing to learn and push myself to become better at anything I do.If i get overwhelmed, or just plain lazy, I may purchase a content pack to cut down on content development time.
Good luck, Treb, Jason, and to all the other one man teams out there.
#5
I did the Aerial Antics prototype which I thought was a complete game ... start to finish art, music, sounds, programming, tools, everything! Of course when I pitched the game to Garage Games ... they said cool it's fun but you need an artist! I've never been considered a terrible artist ... and if I take a lot of time on something I can produce something so so but by letting someone else in on the project I was able to free up that time and focus on what I'm better at which is gameplay testing and programming. Most of us can probably make every component of a game ... just some of us are better suited to certain parts and it's better overall to divide up the focus on each aspect of a game among specialists. Your game will be better for it!
10/01/2005 (8:44 pm)
If you're going to be a one man team ... then you've got to make simple games. If you want to get into anything remotely complex then you need to start working with other people otherwise you'll fall short of what you can really accomplish. I started out alone. I did the Aerial Antics prototype which I thought was a complete game ... start to finish art, music, sounds, programming, tools, everything! Of course when I pitched the game to Garage Games ... they said cool it's fun but you need an artist! I've never been considered a terrible artist ... and if I take a lot of time on something I can produce something so so but by letting someone else in on the project I was able to free up that time and focus on what I'm better at which is gameplay testing and programming. Most of us can probably make every component of a game ... just some of us are better suited to certain parts and it's better overall to divide up the focus on each aspect of a game among specialists. Your game will be better for it!
#6
10/01/2005 (8:57 pm)
Modern RPG tells me that you are probably biting off more than any one person can chew. Try for something smaller and save this idea for when you can do it justice. Otherwise, you most likely won't have the quality that you want.
#7
10/01/2005 (9:54 pm)
No. Sorry but no. You can come and help on my game though ;)
#8
10/01/2005 (10:32 pm)
Modern RPG... as in the time setting? or modern graphics and stuff.. it takes a team years to make a modern RPG. I've been trying to make an RPG for years..... It's so frustrating i can't get everything into motion.
#10
10/02/2005 (12:40 am)
Im trying to and its not fun. i would love help for t least 2 poeple.
#11
Even if one guy is good in programing, modeling, art, sounds, story, testing (hard to belive there is such guys), there will be parts of game that are almost perfect and the parts that suck. It's impossible to create every aspect of the game by one man. Let me tell you something I've learn from my project.
After 10 months messing and testing torque I decided to create FPS game since this is type of game where most of the features are "out of the box" when you purchase the engine. After a while I was bored of buildings and characters that comes with torque and start to create my own. I encoutered numerous problems, had to purchase additional tools, had to purchase content packs just to learn how some things are done...and I have my first very small level, with pretty good character and one enemy...hmmm but enemy doesen't move, or shoot or run away in panic (and I really want that). Oh well, never mind, search the forums, implement the AI, change AI, test....dissaster. AI runs in panic even when I am not around but hey I am ONE MAN team, I will fix AI later (I have to learn more about AI, or wait for AI pack to come out and hope that will fit my game).
I don't want to bother you with my whole story but I realize one very important thing which has been said here a lot of times. "Start small..." and you know they are right. If you want to finish your game then sit down, grab a piece of paper and start planing everything. Maybe you will be one man team and you will outsource for art or models....or anything else but then be prepare to spend money....
Anyway I quit my project, and I started to develop a 2D game but this time game is really simple. After a two weeks of work I have a working prototype (now I have to purchase Torque 2D and try to finish that game).
Whatever you decide I wish you luck, but It's more fun to work in team ;)
10/02/2005 (1:10 am)
One man team..hmmm, maybe is possible in 2D (even then is hard). But 3D...hmmm no way.Even if one guy is good in programing, modeling, art, sounds, story, testing (hard to belive there is such guys), there will be parts of game that are almost perfect and the parts that suck. It's impossible to create every aspect of the game by one man. Let me tell you something I've learn from my project.
After 10 months messing and testing torque I decided to create FPS game since this is type of game where most of the features are "out of the box" when you purchase the engine. After a while I was bored of buildings and characters that comes with torque and start to create my own. I encoutered numerous problems, had to purchase additional tools, had to purchase content packs just to learn how some things are done...and I have my first very small level, with pretty good character and one enemy...hmmm but enemy doesen't move, or shoot or run away in panic (and I really want that). Oh well, never mind, search the forums, implement the AI, change AI, test....dissaster. AI runs in panic even when I am not around but hey I am ONE MAN team, I will fix AI later (I have to learn more about AI, or wait for AI pack to come out and hope that will fit my game).
I don't want to bother you with my whole story but I realize one very important thing which has been said here a lot of times. "Start small..." and you know they are right. If you want to finish your game then sit down, grab a piece of paper and start planing everything. Maybe you will be one man team and you will outsource for art or models....or anything else but then be prepare to spend money....
Anyway I quit my project, and I started to develop a 2D game but this time game is really simple. After a two weeks of work I have a working prototype (now I have to purchase Torque 2D and try to finish that game).
Whatever you decide I wish you luck, but It's more fun to work in team ;)
#12
Considering I already have the layout of my story, and have a decent amount of experience in the areas of programming, 3d art and animation, and voice acting, I feel I can handle it. A one man team can work out just fine for an ambitious project, provided you take the time to learn in any areas you don't have much experience in (I'm having a little bit of trouble with exporting my art, need to get some more practice with the engine, and I need to learn how to compose music and create sound effects, once I get the program(s) for it).
More than anything, one man team or no, having a plan of how and when you are going to doing everything is a must in my eyes; with it, I can see what I should do and when, what can wait if needs be and overall, how long it will take to complete certain milestones.
The way I see it, a one man team can do anything, so long as they have both a plan and patience for it.
10/02/2005 (2:49 am)
I'm a one man team, trying to make an RPG.Considering I already have the layout of my story, and have a decent amount of experience in the areas of programming, 3d art and animation, and voice acting, I feel I can handle it. A one man team can work out just fine for an ambitious project, provided you take the time to learn in any areas you don't have much experience in (I'm having a little bit of trouble with exporting my art, need to get some more practice with the engine, and I need to learn how to compose music and create sound effects, once I get the program(s) for it).
More than anything, one man team or no, having a plan of how and when you are going to doing everything is a must in my eyes; with it, I can see what I should do and when, what can wait if needs be and overall, how long it will take to complete certain milestones.
The way I see it, a one man team can do anything, so long as they have both a plan and patience for it.
#13
I am currently a one man team myself, working on a very ambitous project (turning TGE into a SCI-FI ready engine, then adding in Novodex physics engine).
Don't get me wrong i do not want to be a one man team, but am being forced into it so i am doing it all myself. programming is what i went to college for (C++ being my Major) plus i have been doing 2d adn 3d art for several years now, and have experience in game development. But it is not easy working on a large project alone, you can easily like mentioned above cut down the dev time by buying content packs.
If you can find others to help you out in this, but if you can make it yourself then i would say go for it, but also plan on a long dev cycle.
10/02/2005 (3:26 am)
Yes one man team is possible for a large project such as a RPG but hard.I am currently a one man team myself, working on a very ambitous project (turning TGE into a SCI-FI ready engine, then adding in Novodex physics engine).
Don't get me wrong i do not want to be a one man team, but am being forced into it so i am doing it all myself. programming is what i went to college for (C++ being my Major) plus i have been doing 2d adn 3d art for several years now, and have experience in game development. But it is not easy working on a large project alone, you can easily like mentioned above cut down the dev time by buying content packs.
If you can find others to help you out in this, but if you can make it yourself then i would say go for it, but also plan on a long dev cycle.
#14
Scripting for FPS AI can be very difficult. Once I made a new gametype for UT2004, and I remember trying to modfiy the AI to the liking of my game rules. The standard UT2004 bot script was like 5,000 lines of code (this does not include AI Squad code, navigation points and game objectives). All I had to do was mod existing code, and it was still a pain. This is one reason why I chose to make an RPG instead of FPS, because FPS AI, you have to program everything the bots see (line of sight), movement, player interaction and how they react to it in real time. Turn based RPG, I imagine is far simpler because it's mostly taking turns hitting eachother based on damage, player level hitpoints and magic points.
I do tend to take shortcuts sometimes, but when it comes down to it, I know what looks good or bad (some people don't and it shows in their work), and I will push hard to make sure my efforts don't look any more half-assed than you'd expect from a commercial game with a deadline. My deadline is flexible, and I would rather learn what needs to be done and take longer, than rush to make a deadline (perfectionist programmers never meet them anyways). I just hope I don't get burnt out along the way.
All the responses in this thread have valid points, which are appreciated and understood, and they vary from positive to negative about one-man development teams. I, like others, am pretty much "forced" to work alone. I don't really have much friends or family that can help me with this or that for my game, and I cannot afford to hire help. I am also very reluctant to split my earnings with a dev team (which would be total strangers) if I am selling my game for half as much money as most titles are realeased for. It wouldn't be fair to anybody. I am building a commercial game because despite my talents, I am poor. I have served many years making free software for others while I starve and struggle in borderline poverty. It's time to get fed. Yet even if this project fails financially, I will have the feeling of accomplishment.
I will build my prototype, and go from there to see if it's even feasible, or if I can handle doing just that - but in a hundred fold. If not, then I will definately have to do something smaller. Whichever the case, I am determined to build SOMETHING I can really be proud of.
Cheers, to all the indie devs out there. Thank you all for your input.
10/02/2005 (5:47 am)
Denis:Scripting for FPS AI can be very difficult. Once I made a new gametype for UT2004, and I remember trying to modfiy the AI to the liking of my game rules. The standard UT2004 bot script was like 5,000 lines of code (this does not include AI Squad code, navigation points and game objectives). All I had to do was mod existing code, and it was still a pain. This is one reason why I chose to make an RPG instead of FPS, because FPS AI, you have to program everything the bots see (line of sight), movement, player interaction and how they react to it in real time. Turn based RPG, I imagine is far simpler because it's mostly taking turns hitting eachother based on damage, player level hitpoints and magic points.
I do tend to take shortcuts sometimes, but when it comes down to it, I know what looks good or bad (some people don't and it shows in their work), and I will push hard to make sure my efforts don't look any more half-assed than you'd expect from a commercial game with a deadline. My deadline is flexible, and I would rather learn what needs to be done and take longer, than rush to make a deadline (perfectionist programmers never meet them anyways). I just hope I don't get burnt out along the way.
All the responses in this thread have valid points, which are appreciated and understood, and they vary from positive to negative about one-man development teams. I, like others, am pretty much "forced" to work alone. I don't really have much friends or family that can help me with this or that for my game, and I cannot afford to hire help. I am also very reluctant to split my earnings with a dev team (which would be total strangers) if I am selling my game for half as much money as most titles are realeased for. It wouldn't be fair to anybody. I am building a commercial game because despite my talents, I am poor. I have served many years making free software for others while I starve and struggle in borderline poverty. It's time to get fed. Yet even if this project fails financially, I will have the feeling of accomplishment.
I will build my prototype, and go from there to see if it's even feasible, or if I can handle doing just that - but in a hundred fold. If not, then I will definately have to do something smaller. Whichever the case, I am determined to build SOMETHING I can really be proud of.
Cheers, to all the indie devs out there. Thank you all for your input.
#15
Anyway, as far as one man teams go; Yes, it's definitely feasible (if the one man is the right man that is), however you _really_ have to scale things according to your available resources. This is true for any sized team, a RPG just isn't a one man sort of project.
So, basically the bottom line is; start small. I know others have said this already, I'm just worried you may pass on this advice and as it's really good advice I wanted to repeat it. My suggestion is that you start by designing a game that you can prototype in 2-3 weeks and then complete in 3 or 4 months.
If you fail, no biggy, you lost a couple of months of your life. If you do manage to see it through you have a complete game and hopefully it will be good enough to actually generate some revenue (which you can use to contract out parts of any future games).
If you were to go with the "big project" right away and fail you've lost considerably more time and you're stuck with nothing.
10/02/2005 (7:26 am)
If you're in this to make money... forget it. Go flip burgers. I'm serious, making games will most likely rather end up costing you money.Anyway, as far as one man teams go; Yes, it's definitely feasible (if the one man is the right man that is), however you _really_ have to scale things according to your available resources. This is true for any sized team, a RPG just isn't a one man sort of project.
So, basically the bottom line is; start small. I know others have said this already, I'm just worried you may pass on this advice and as it's really good advice I wanted to repeat it. My suggestion is that you start by designing a game that you can prototype in 2-3 weeks and then complete in 3 or 4 months.
If you fail, no biggy, you lost a couple of months of your life. If you do manage to see it through you have a complete game and hopefully it will be good enough to actually generate some revenue (which you can use to contract out parts of any future games).
If you were to go with the "big project" right away and fail you've lost considerably more time and you're stuck with nothing.
#16
As far as not making money from the game goes, like I said, at the very least I will have accomplished something. That is something to put on a resume. Software companies want to see stuff like that (work on commercial products) on a resume. Most of them don't appreciate/care very much for free software titles listed on a resume, because it's not "commercial".
BTW I already have a job just as bad as flipping burgers. I'd rather try building a game and fail than get comfortable in my current situation.
10/02/2005 (6:11 pm)
Thanks for the input, Magnus. I will be planning to make a doable prototype that takes just a few weeks. If it goes good, then I can continue trying to make a playable demo. If that goes good, then that is when I build the rest of the game.As far as not making money from the game goes, like I said, at the very least I will have accomplished something. That is something to put on a resume. Software companies want to see stuff like that (work on commercial products) on a resume. Most of them don't appreciate/care very much for free software titles listed on a resume, because it's not "commercial".
BTW I already have a job just as bad as flipping burgers. I'd rather try building a game and fail than get comfortable in my current situation.
#17
10/02/2005 (7:41 pm)
ITs posible if you really dedicate yourself to it.
#18
Recently I have been able to recruit a couple of the old members back now that I have completed many of the mile stones.
Even worse, I am building a "twitch" or FPS MMORPG.
It's alot of work and alot of money (gotta buy as much as possible to stay sane and not get over-whelmed).
But, if your target project is small (death-match fps or similar) it can be done very quickly.
Honestly I would have to say the hardest part is the art and game design.
GG and it's community have provided many, many working snippits/mods, so much of your target game may allready be sitting here.
It really depends on the project.
I too am building a modern/future rpg.
Alot of us have this idea in our heads, who knows where it comes from.
Many have failed, many are still trying.
I just want to play the damn thing, so until somebody else pulls it off, I'll keep trying too.
I think I'll go watch the Matrix (another mass-conciousness idea that has yet to be pulled off)...
Ari
"16*16 = subnet grid, the rest is up to you..."
10/03/2005 (12:54 am)
I am a one man team, well at least for about a year, maybe more.Recently I have been able to recruit a couple of the old members back now that I have completed many of the mile stones.
Even worse, I am building a "twitch" or FPS MMORPG.
It's alot of work and alot of money (gotta buy as much as possible to stay sane and not get over-whelmed).
But, if your target project is small (death-match fps or similar) it can be done very quickly.
Honestly I would have to say the hardest part is the art and game design.
GG and it's community have provided many, many working snippits/mods, so much of your target game may allready be sitting here.
It really depends on the project.
I too am building a modern/future rpg.
Alot of us have this idea in our heads, who knows where it comes from.
Many have failed, many are still trying.
I just want to play the damn thing, so until somebody else pulls it off, I'll keep trying too.
I think I'll go watch the Matrix (another mass-conciousness idea that has yet to be pulled off)...
Ari
"16*16 = subnet grid, the rest is up to you..."
#19
10/03/2005 (2:35 am)
I am currently a one-man team now. The best thing is not to do complicated stuff. I'm working on an FPS now. I buy my models since my graphic skills are mediocre at best.
#20
Download here its not featured on GG anymore but there is still remnants of it around the site.
As far as a 1 man team RPG. You're going to need alot of help. Thats really all there is to it.
10/03/2005 (2:53 am)
If im not mistaken...Tennis Critters was a one man teamDownload here its not featured on GG anymore but there is still remnants of it around the site.
As far as a 1 man team RPG. You're going to need alot of help. Thats really all there is to it.
Torque Owner Jason Swearingen
maybe it is true, if you are a godsend artist too.
but chances are that you'll have to rely on others, at least for the art stuff.
and you know, this is the problem with all of us, we all want to do OUR idea! the thing to do is to collaberate... that's how things get done :P