SORT problems with LOD'ed bushes/trees
by Sean "H&K" Gautreaux · in Artist Corner · 09/07/2002 (11:38 pm) · 8 replies
Well, after driving myself crazy yesterday (and days before) while trying to make a bush (SORTed with LOD), I have found a problem.
I am trying to make a transparent bush with LOD. I followed the tuts, studied the given examples, but Max kept crashing during export (not to mention various other problems). A dts file was made, but didn't show up in the showtool.
However, when I removed the SORT:: prefix from the model name, it worked, somewhat. Max was stable, a model was exported, the model had correct LOD and it showed up with the showtool, but the faces were not SORTed obviously...
I've heard of a SORT error... is this it? Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks,
Hans Gruber
Also, if there is another topic discussing this, please post a link.
I am trying to make a transparent bush with LOD. I followed the tuts, studied the given examples, but Max kept crashing during export (not to mention various other problems). A dts file was made, but didn't show up in the showtool.
However, when I removed the SORT:: prefix from the model name, it worked, somewhat. Max was stable, a model was exported, the model had correct LOD and it showed up with the showtool, but the faces were not SORTed obviously...
I've heard of a SORT error... is this it? Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks,
Hans Gruber
Also, if there is another topic discussing this, please post a link.
#2
Transparancy can give you a whole lot of trouble, at least to get it right, i didn't hear about it choking up MAX yet so this is new for me...
If you want i can have a look at the mode, maybe i can fix it, it's kind of hard to say what is wrong without seeing the file.
11/15/2002 (6:43 am)
I disagree, the exporter is very good you just have to know the ways how to use it...Transparancy can give you a whole lot of trouble, at least to get it right, i didn't hear about it choking up MAX yet so this is new for me...
If you want i can have a look at the mode, maybe i can fix it, it's kind of hard to say what is wrong without seeing the file.
#3
It was meant to be used on really low polygon shapes (like boxes and such) and was never intended to be used on high polycount objects.
The SORT:: parameter is not a panacea for all sorting issues.
What is the polycount of the object you are trying to export? If it is a higher polycount object, the sorting algorithm (which actually splits the polygons of the shape) can easily create a VERY large number of polygons.
Try reducing the polycount of the shape to see if that helps.
As for the exporter not being very good, well, I would disagree. It will export everyhting I throw at it.
I will agree with most that it is not easy to use.
It was never designed to be a tool that would accept anything you can throw at it.
11/15/2002 (7:30 am)
The SORT:: parameter was designed to allow low polygon transparent meshes to self sort correctly. It was meant to be used on really low polygon shapes (like boxes and such) and was never intended to be used on high polycount objects.
The SORT:: parameter is not a panacea for all sorting issues.
What is the polycount of the object you are trying to export? If it is a higher polycount object, the sorting algorithm (which actually splits the polygons of the shape) can easily create a VERY large number of polygons.
Try reducing the polycount of the shape to see if that helps.
As for the exporter not being very good, well, I would disagree. It will export everyhting I throw at it.
I will agree with most that it is not easy to use.
It was never designed to be a tool that would accept anything you can throw at it.
#4
If you have one texture for the whole bush then just make 2 materials. One of the materials will be marked with the opicity and the other won't. (Joe is the one who told me this) If you do it that way the exporter will seperate it fine and all should be good even in the LOD. Thats how I do it and it works everytime.
You can also use multi-subobject material and make seperate textures for the bark and leaves. Then just mark the leaf texture with opicity and leave the rest alone. That also works very well and sorts everytime. Here a shot of a tree granted it doesn't have alot of foliage it was done with the second method using a multi-subobject material
Tree
Hope that helps
Matt
11/16/2002 (1:50 pm)
Well depending on how your putting your texture map together you can do one of 2 things.If you have one texture for the whole bush then just make 2 materials. One of the materials will be marked with the opicity and the other won't. (Joe is the one who told me this) If you do it that way the exporter will seperate it fine and all should be good even in the LOD. Thats how I do it and it works everytime.
You can also use multi-subobject material and make seperate textures for the bark and leaves. Then just mark the leaf texture with opicity and leave the rest alone. That also works very well and sorts everytime. Here a shot of a tree granted it doesn't have alot of foliage it was done with the second method using a multi-subobject material
Tree
Hope that helps
Matt
#5
Well, let me ask about a few basics first...
The leaves polys can cross? Is it best if they don't?
Is there a tree tutorial anywhere?
Can the leaves objects be separate from the trunk object?
Is it best to make the tree one piece?
Is there a 3ds version of a correctly exported tree anywhere?
The first tree I made was about 75 polies, no LOD/Multires. None of the polys crossed. That one didnt give me much trouble.
The next tree had crossing polies (no LOD or Multires), it exported, but some of the leaves polys and trunk polys disappeared.
The next item has a small shrub of 50 non-crossing polygons. Those problems were described in my original post. ^^^
Today, I tried a new tree, 300 polygons, lots of crossing polys. I tried to just get a correct SORT:: export... All of the leaves polys were 1 piece. The trunk was a separate piece. Export Whole Shape > ERROR: Run-time Check #3 : 'bestCount' variable being used without being defined... oh, and 3dsMax freezes...
Something is whacked...
Hans Gruber
11/17/2002 (6:32 am)
AH! REPLIES! Thanks, fellas.Well, let me ask about a few basics first...
The leaves polys can cross? Is it best if they don't?
Is there a tree tutorial anywhere?
Can the leaves objects be separate from the trunk object?
Is it best to make the tree one piece?
Is there a 3ds version of a correctly exported tree anywhere?
The first tree I made was about 75 polies, no LOD/Multires. None of the polys crossed. That one didnt give me much trouble.
The next tree had crossing polies (no LOD or Multires), it exported, but some of the leaves polys and trunk polys disappeared.
The next item has a small shrub of 50 non-crossing polygons. Those problems were described in my original post. ^^^
Today, I tried a new tree, 300 polygons, lots of crossing polys. I tried to just get a correct SORT:: export... All of the leaves polys were 1 piece. The trunk was a separate piece. Export Whole Shape > ERROR: Run-time Check #3 : 'bestCount' variable being used without being defined... oh, and 3dsMax freezes...
Something is whacked...
Hans Gruber
#6
11/17/2002 (7:03 am)
try getting the exporter from my .plan and see if that changes anything
#8
The new exporter was flawless in exporting SORTed things. No Max crashes at all. I haven't tried SORT + LOD yet, but will soon.
And, yes, that tree example showed me some great stuff too!
My original tree was 400 polys, then 800 when the faces were doubled. Then, after the poly splits, it was 2000+... Oh well, I just gotta prepare them better. It does look quite nice though. I'll post some pics when I am able to.
Thanks,
Hans Gruber
11/20/2002 (9:44 am)
Fellas, THANK YOU!The new exporter was flawless in exporting SORTed things. No Max crashes at all. I haven't tried SORT + LOD yet, but will soon.
And, yes, that tree example showed me some great stuff too!
My original tree was 400 polys, then 800 when the faces were doubled. Then, after the poly splits, it was 2000+... Oh well, I just gotta prepare them better. It does look quite nice though. I'll post some pics when I am able to.
Thanks,
Hans Gruber
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